Vox co-founder and The New York Times columnist Ezra Klein said Thursday that Vice President Kamala Harris’ campaign’s strategy to keep its candidates out of the spotlight backfired during the vice presidential debate.

Harris and her running mate, Democratic Minnesota Gov. Tim Walz, have participated in few interviews and media appearances as they run the clock to the Nov. 5 election. Klein said this strategy has “leashed” Walz from building onto his skills to communicate effectively on a debate stage.

“[The Harris campaign] has taken this guy who has shown himself to be an incredibly effective communicator when unleashed, and the Harris campaign has leashed him,” Klein said. “Harris does almost no interviews, no tough interviews. And they have put Tim Walz on the same diet. And so unlike J.D. Vance who’s doing all these tough interviews and getting into fights constantly with the media and sharpening his rhetorical blades and realizing how he can answer these questions and testing and testing and testing his lines, not only is Harris not doing that, but Walz is really good at it, that’s why they picked him on some level.”

“He’s not doing it either. And I’m not just talking here about Fox News. Put him on Sports Talk Radio podcasts. Put him on Lex Friedman, try to get him on Joe Rogan. Try to get him where these young men you need to win over are … But they’re not doing that and they’re holding him back,” Klein continued.

Klein said it was “evident” that Republican vice presidential candidate J.D. Vance participates in many interviews with opposition media just by watching him on the debate stage, and argued Harris and Walz could be better at it if they showed up for more media appearances.

During the debate, Walz faltered through a question without giving a clear answer on why he falsely said he was in Hong Kong during the pro-democracy protests at Tiananmen Square in Beijing, China, in 1989. Some in the liberal media, including on MSNBC’s “Morning Joe,” criticized Walz for not having issued enough lines of attacks at Vance.

The Harris-Walz ticket has done fewer interviews than any other presidential candidate in modern history, Axios reportedin mid-September. Harris and Walz sat down for 7 interviews as of Sept. 19, two months following the launch of the campaign, while Vance and Republican nominee Donald Trump had participated in more than 70 interviews.

The vice president’s first interview occurred on Aug. 29 with CNN’s Dana Bash, where she failed to provide a detailed answer about her policy changes on key positions since her time in the U.S. Senate and as a 2020 presidential candidate.

The vice president also sat down for interviews with Oprah Winfrey and the National Association of Black Journalists in September, which received criticisms from some liberals and Democrats for lacking specific answers to questions and appearing “out of touch.”