The following is a transcript excerpt from Dr. Jordan Peterson’s “Depression & Anxiety.” In this segment, he addresses the facilitation of positive emotion, the brain’s neurochemical influence with an example of a micro goal, and the acquisition of skills versus counterproductive micro conceptions in relation to depression. Dr. Peterson’s extensive catalog is available on DailyWire+.

* * *

We talked about the amelioration of negative emotion. We can also talk about the facilitation of positive emotion. If you break down a person’s goals into different domains, you can establish micro goals. Then, as people observe themselves moving positively toward the accomplishment of micro goals, their positive emotion systems start to turn back on.

Imagine you make a micro goal and the goal might be: This month I am going to clean up my room. So, the first thing you do is organize your sock drawer, which is harder than it sounds because maybe you have 30 pairs of socks in there that you have had for 10 years. Some of them are ratty, a lot are not stylish, some are uncomfortable, and you have to take them out of the drawer. Then, you have to try them all on, and you have to make the difficult decision about when a pair of socks is a little too ratty to keep. And you have to contend with your obsessive compulsive disorder while you are doing that, a disorder that might make you want to hoard. It is not that easy. 

But if you see yourself doing it and you make a little progress, then your brain marks that progress by producing dopamine. Dopamine is the fundamental chemical that mediates the kind of positive emotion that makes people feel alive and hopeful. It is that drug, by the way, that is made manifest in excess by drugs like cocaine, heroin, and methamphetamine — all the drugs of abuse that people take to get stimulated. They are all dopaminergic. 

So the dopamine system gives you a little kick and signals, “Yes, that was good.” Then you might think, “What is that kick?” Well, it is a sign that you should do more of that. But that is not all that dopamine does neurochemically. 

Imagine there is a sequence of neurons that were activated as you were progressing toward the successful implementation of that goal. The dopamine makes those neurons grow — either proliferate more, develop more connections, or the connections get thicker. That means those things you did successfully are more likely to become part of you and to manifest themselves in the future, and that is growth. You feel that positively, and it is literal growth. It is biological growth. You think, “We’re moving toward growth.” It is either that or stasis or death. 

By setting up these micro goals in relationship to broader goals, then you can activate the positive emotion system, and that’s anti-depressant. My online self-authoring program helps people get their story straight. Getting a story straight occurs by laying out the past, laying out the present, laying out the future, figuring out what skills to develop, coming up with a strategy for the development of the skills, and laying out a vision of goals. All of that is anti-depressant in the most fundamental sense.

WATCH: Dr. Jordan B. Peterson on Depression and Anxiety on DailyWire+

Then it is possible, too, that if you are in dire straits and you have a health problem that is associated with depression, that an antidepressant can help with this to get the ball rolling. As I said, if you have a life, sometimes the antidepressant can be quite effective, although that does not necessarily mean it is addressing the underlying cause of the depression, which is often very difficult to specify. But it is better than being paralyzed into inability and suffering terribly despite the fact that you actually have your life together. 

If you do not have your life together, then you can do the process of decomposition (that I just described) and start making incremental movement toward putting each of those domains in order and putting yourself in order in that manner. That will constrain your anxiety and your suffering, and facilitate positive emotion. That is a big part of psychotherapy, all of that — on the biochemical front and also on the behavioral and practical front.

The cognitive behaviorists would concentrate more on re-structuring your conceptual schema. For example, maybe you are talking to someone who is intellectually arrogant but unemployed because they feel that an entry level job is beneath them. You might investigate that by asking: 

Beneath what, exactly? Beneath your intellectual pride? Do you have a better option? Maybe you are conceptualizing the workplace inappropriately, in a manner that is counterproductive with regards to your own stated goals. So you want to be alone and isolated, miserable, unproductive, and non-generous? Or do you want to get the ball rolling?

I guess I want to get the ball rolling.

Are you willing to start at the beginning?

Well, no, I think I should start at the top.

There is a problem in your conceptual scheme because no one is going to put you at the top, and you should not even be there. You do not want to set yourself up for failure. You might as well start somewhere you can start. And that is cognitive modification in some sense. It is the retooling of the categories that the person is using to interact with the world.

Behavioral therapies concentrate on the acquisition of the actual skills. Cognitive therapists deal with the micro conceptions that might be counterproductive. You can see some of those in depression.

* * *

WATCH: Dr. Jordan B. Peterson on Depression and Anxiety on DailyWire+

Dr. Jordan B. Peterson is a clinical psychologist and professor emeritus at the University of Toronto. From 1993 to 1998 he served as assistant and then associate professor of psychology at Harvard. He is the international bestselling author of “Maps of Meaning,” “12 Rules For Life,” and “Beyond Order.” You can now listen to or watch his popular lectures on DailyWire+.

Be sure to PRE-ORDER Dr. Peterson’s newest book: “We Who Wrestle with God” (Portfolio/Penguin. November 19, 2024.)

The views expressed in the series “Depression and Anxiety” are presented for educational and informational purposes and are not intended a medical or psychological advice.

Continue reading this exclusive article and join the conversation, plus watch free videos on DW+

Already a member? Log in