MSNBC’s Stephanie Ruhle revealed herself to be a dues-paying member of Journalists Against Journalism on Friday’s episode of HBO's Real Time with Bill Maher.  During an argument with New York Times columnist Bret Stephens, Ruhle argued that demanding Harris do a serious interview was akin to asking for “Nirvana.”

Stephens may not be anybody’s definition of a Trump supporter, but that doesn’t mean he is just going to fall in line behind Harris, “It’s not too much to ask, ‘Kamala, say, are you for a Palestinian state if Hamas is going to run that state? Yes or no?’”

A confused Ruhle retorted, “And let's say you don't like her answer, are you going to vote for Donald Trump?”

As Stephens reiterated that he won’t, Ruhle rolled on, “Kamala Harris is not running for perfect, she's running against Trump. We have two choices, and so there are some things you might not know her answer to, and in 2024, unlike 2016 for a lot of the American people, we know exactly what Trump will do, who he is, and the kind of threat he is to democracy, so it's unclear to me how there can be an informed—”

Stephens interrupted, “Stephanie, the problem people have with Kamala is we don't know her answer to anything, okay?”

Ruhle shot back, “But you know his answer to everything,” to which Stephens replied that isn’t good enough, “And that's why I would never vote for him, and people shouldn’t vote for him, but people are also expected to have some idea of what the program is of the person you're supposed to vote for. You're just not supposed to say, 'well, you have to vote for Y because X is this, that, and the other.'”

That’s especially true for someone like Ruhle, who has her own news show and whose job it is to inform the public. As Stephens explained, “Let's find out a little bit more and I don't think it's a lot to ask her to sit down for a real interview as opposed to a puff piece in which she describes her feelings of growing up in Oakland with nice lawns.”

Ruhle replied, “Then, I would just say to that, when you move to Nirvana, give me your real estate broker's number and I'll be your next-door neighbor. We don't live there!”

That was not the only time Stephens and Ruhle tussled. Earlier, Stephens argued that Trump is the worst guy to make the case for toning down the rhetoric after the second assassination attempt against him. Nevertheless, Stephens thought he had a point, “Of course, he’s absolutely right that we probably should tone it down when we are calling our opponents the end of democracy, the end of western civilization. We're not helping our agreements.”

Maher disagreed, “That's a dumb argument, I think. What? No, that's their argument, which is 'you guys are saying Trump is a threat to democracy,' but he is a threat. The answer can't be that we can't say what's true. I want to say what's true and the left has to do that, too.”

Speaking from experience, Stephens replied, “No, I’m sorry, but every time the left calls Trump a threat to democracy, Americans remember that in 2016, guys like me were calling Trump a threat to democracy and here we are.”

Ruhle claimed nothing’s changed, “And he was then,” while Maher echoed, “He is.”

After Stephens claimed that those opposed to Trump should make policy arguments instead, Ruhle claimed, “Hold on, Bret, you don't start calling out the truth because people are not listening. Right, when Donald Trump tells a lie after lie, you don't say, “Well, nobody seems to care.” It's our job in the media. People complain Donald Trump got fact-checked way more than Kamala Harris did, you're damn right he did. You know why? He told more lies!”

Putting Trump to the side, Harris recently told multiple falsehoods at the National Association of Black Journalists forum that weren’t fact-checked either by reporters on stage or fact-checking websites afterwards.

Here is a transcript for the September 20 show:

HBO Real Time with Bill Maher

9/20/2024

10:22 PM ET

BRET STEPHENS: Of course, he’s absolutely right that we probably should tone it down when we are calling our opponents the end of democracy, the end of western civilization. We're not helping our agreements.

BILL MAHER: I disagree, that's a dumb argument, I think. What? No, that's their argument which is “you guys are saying Trump is a threat to democracy,” but he is a threat. The answer can't be that we can't say what's true. I want to say what's true and the left has to do that, too.

STEPHENS: No, I’m sorry, but every time the left calls Trump a threat to democracy, Americans remember that in 2016 guys like me were calling Trump a threat to democracy and here we are.

STEPHANIE RUHLE: And he was then.

MAHER: He is.

MAHER: And that dog is not going to hunt. You have to say the case against Trump is that he's going to be a terrible president, who's going to divide the country, that he’s going to accomplish absolutely nothing, that is going to embarrass us in front of the world and is going to conduct a miserable foreign policy, but those are policy questions.

RUHLE: Hold on, Bret, you don't start calling out the truth because people are not listening. Right, when Donald Trump tells a lie after lie, you don't say, “well, nobody seems to care.” It's our job in the media, right? When people complain Donald Trump got fact-checked way more than Kamala Harris did, you're damn right he did. You know why? He told more lies!

…

STEPHENS : “It’s not too much to ask, “Kamala, say, are you for a Palestinian state if Hamas is going to run that state? Yes or no?”

RUHLE: Okay, and let's say you don't like her answer, are you going to vote for Donald Trump?

STEPHENS: No, I'm not, I just said I’m not going to vote for him.

RUHLE: Kamala Harris is not running for perfect, she's running against Trump. We have two choices, and so there are some things you might not know her answer to, and in 2024, unlike 2016 for a lot of the American people, we know exactly what Trump will do, who he is, and the kind of threat he is to democracy, so it's unclear to me how there can be an informed—

STEPHENS: I don’t know—Stephanie, the problem people have with Kamala, is we don't know her answer to anything, okay? 

RUHLE: But you know his answer to everything.

STEPHENS: And that's why I would never vote for him, and people shouldn’t vote for him, but people are also expected to have some idea of what the program is of the person you're supposed to vote for. You're just not supposed to say, “well, you have to vote for Y because X is this, that, and the other.”

Let's find out a little bit more and I don't think it's a lot to ask her to sit down for a real interview as opposed to a puff piece in which she describes, like, her feelings of growing up in Oakland with nice lawns.

RUHLE: Then, I would just say to that, when you move to Nirvana, give me your real estate broker's number and I'll be your next door neighbor. We don't live there!