Independent Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders said Sunday on NBC News that Vice President Kamala Harris isn’t “abandoning” the “progressive” values she campaigned on in 2020, but is instead “trying to be pragmatic” to win this November.

Since becoming the Democratic presidential nominee, Harris has faced backlash from Republicans for flip-flopping on far-left policies like banning fracking, which she once advocated for. On “Meet the Press,” host Kristen Welker pressed Sanders on Harris’ recent policy reversals, asking if he believes she is leaving “her progressive ideals” behind.

“No, I don’t think she’s abandoning her ideals. I think she’s trying to be pragmatic and doing what she thinks is right in order to win the election. My own view is slightly different. I think that in America today there are a lot of people, rural people, working-class people who no longer believe that the United States, Congress and government represents their interests who are dominated by big-money interests,” Sanders said.

“So I think that there is something wrong personally when we are the only major country on earth not to guarantee health care to all of our people despite spending twice as much per capita,” Sanders continued. “That is why I support Medicare for all. She does not. She has another approach toward moving to universal health care.”

Sanders noted that if Harris continues campaigning on issues like “raising taxes on billionaires” and increasing “the minimum wage from a starvation” level, she could “win big.” However, Welker pressed the senator again, asking if he still considers Harris to be”progressive.

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“I do, look, she and I – she is not where I am, but I think, for example, when she talks about making the child tax credit permanent and you know, we did that in the American rescue plan. We lowered childhood poverty by 40%. Kristen, we should not have, as the richest country on earth, one of the highest rates of childhood poverty,” Sanders responded.

“When she talks about building 3 million units of affordable housing that’s a big deal because we have a major housing crisis in America,” Sanders said. “When she talks about passing the PRO Act to make it easier for workers to join unions, that’s a big deal because we have to expand the union movement so the workers get decent wages. So yes, her views are not mine but I do consider her progressive.”

While Harris has discussed during her speeches specific policies she will support if elected this November, her full policy platform has not yet been released on her campaign website as of Sunday. In her first sit-down interview with the press in late August since becoming the presidential nominee, Harris did not explain in detail why her aides have reversed several of her policy stances and instead stated that her “values have not changed.”

“I think the most important and most significant aspect of my policy perspective and decisions is that my values have not changed,” Harris told CNN.