In an epic interview with CNN’s Kate Bolduan, Trump ally Vivek Ramaswamy stood firm in his defense of the former president and his policies, and used the tense interview to push back on any defenses of Vice President Kamala Harris, noting that she has shifted in her policies dramatically, now saying quite different things than she once did on everything from fracking to health insurance.

Sounding off on Kamala toward the beginning of the testy exchange about flip-flopping, Vivek used Kamala’s own words and policies against her. Leading with a list of her policies, he said, “[I]f we’re able to use Kamala Harris’s own words against her, as I believe we should, she ran for president favoring a tax on unrealized capital gains, favoring an abolition — her words — to abolish private health insurance, a ban on fracking, bans on offshore drilling.”

Continuing, Vivek noted that the sort of policies that Kamala supports aren’t the sort of things that normal Americans support or even view as mainstream, and that he thinks her debate with former President Trump will expose as much to the public. He said, “These are the kinds of policies that absolutely are not mainstream for most Americans. And this is where I do think the debate will be useful.”

He then called for greater media scrutiny of her in what seemed like a dig at CNN over Dana Bash’s pre-recorded, seemingly softball interview with Kamala Harris, something that was far from being an interview that really got to the heart of the issue. He said, “I do think that greater media scrutiny of Kamala Harris, hopefully with more sit-down interviews than we’ve had so far, will be helpful.”

Vivek next noted that Trump has done a plethora of interviews, much unlike Kamala, and that she’ll soon be exposed, in his opinion. He said, “Say what you will, or you may or may not agree with Donald Trump, he and JD Vance have sat for tens of interviews, as have other members of the campaign and surrogate team. The reality is we haven’t seen the same from Kamala Harris. I do expect that’s going to change in the next couple of months, and I believe voters are going to be very well-informed heading into November.”

Bolduan then jumped in and claimed that Kamala’s past policy positions don’t matter because she now claims to have different ones. She said, “Vivek, but on banning private health insurance, she has said she does not believe that, and she does not believe that now. On banning fracking, she has made clear, and she did in the interview with Dana Bash, that she does not support that anymore. If evolving–”

Interrupting her, Vivek said, “So, let me respectfully respond to that, I can’t leave that hanging.” Bolduan then pushed back as his attempt to interject and comment on her changed policy positions, saying, “One second.” Vivek then told her that he wanted to chime back in on policy, saying, “Kate, I can’t leave that hanging, on policy, if I may.”

Bolduan pressed on, saying, “I understand, but I’m going to ask the question, then you can totally answer. She said very clearly that now is, this is, those are not her positions. If evolving on an issue, if evolving on a position — you can even call it flip-flopping on an issue — if that is now not allowed, if that should be, you know, the death knell to a campaign. Donald Trump’s got issues there.”

Vivek told her that, much in contrast to Kamala, who hasn’t spoken out overly much about what exact policies she thinks are the right ones to implement, Trump has been “clear on his preferred policies.” He said, “So look, the reality is Donald Trump’s been clear about his policy positions.” Benny Johnson, the podcaster and X personality, commented on Vivek’s torching of Kamala, saying, “CNN host instantly regrets having Vivek on after he exposes Kamala as a career fraud in just 60 seconds. Watch. HOLY SMOKES. 🔥”

Watch Vivek spar with Bouldan here:

Featured image credit: screengrab from the embedded video