Spencer Klavan, associate editor at the Claremont Institute and host of the “Young Heretics” podcast, discussed his new book exploring the relationship between science and faith and rejected the popular notion that the two are incompatible on the latest episode of “The Ben Shapiro Show Sunday Special.” 

During the interview, Shapiro asked Klavan about his new work “Light of the Mind, Light of the World: Illuminating Science through Faith.” Klavan told Shapiro that “religion has always motivated the best scientific discoveries and how science as it is currently unveiling, the natural world can reveal to us the glory of God.”

Shapiro and Klavan are also featured in “Foundations of the West,” the new DailyWire+ docu-series from Dr. Jordan B. Peterson, exploring the profound legacies of Western civilizations and their lasting impact on the modern world. 

“Obviously, the way that many people are taught in public school or have come to believe because of media is that science and reason are completely opposed to faith and religion,” Shapiro said. 

WATCH THE FULL ‘SUNDAY SPECIAL’ EPISODE WITH BEN SHAPIRO AND SPENCER KLAVAN

Klavan said that the idea of science and religion being at odds is “not just pernicious” but also “wildly out of date.” He pointed to recent scientific discoveries that go hand-in-hand with “the world as described in the Jewish and the Christian Scriptures.” Klavan argued this narrative creates an unnecessary barrier for people of faith, making them feel that they must “abandon the most important thing to all of us, which is the life of the soul and the life of the spirit” in order to be rational.

Klavan emphasized that science itself requires faith principles to function. The Daily Wire host agreed, saying, “The reality is that science can’t prove itself. And this is something that scientists are constantly attempting to just sort of ignore. But science as a process is not a provably true process. And in fact, the very idea of an absolute truth is a faith principle because evolution, biologists have said many times, does not point to truth.”

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“It points to adaptability. And so you can say that perhaps an idea is adaptable, that perhaps it helps us in our evolutionary fitness,” he added. “But you can’t ever make the claim that it has an absolute level of real truth. That is a faith principle. And in fact, virtually all of science is rooted in faith principles like that.”

Klavan cited historical examples like Galileo, who defended his observations by saying, “I don’t want to insult God by believing that my reason has a hard stopping point.”

“In other words, if it’s true that human reason only extends so far and no further, that’s an insult to religion,” he continued. “The religious point of view at that time, or one at least of the most passionately faithful points of view, was that because we’re made in the image of God, that classic Judeo-Christian idea, our minds are little microcosms or templates for understanding the whole rest of the natural world. If you take away that religious conviction, you have no reason to believe that or to expect good answers to the questions that science teaches us to ask.”